alge S4 port issues

It is possible that the wire leads connecting the banana plug inputs have broken off. Remove the cover and the main circuit board. Look at how the banana plug socket leads are attached to the circuit board.

You can also check the inputs on the DB25 connector. All of channels are available there as well.

Josh:

A normally-operating S4 in program 3 will give impulses on 18 channels - #0 to #17.

On the back of the S4, you've got banana sockets for c0, c3, c6, and c9. Your question deals with c0, c1, c3, and c4. This leads me to believe you've either got a port extender, such as the MC-18 or OC-18, attached to your S4's DB25, or you've got a DIN cable(s) attached to one or more of the PHOTOCELL DIN sockets (A, B C).

Since your problem is replicated exactly on the two S4s, this leads me to believe you've got a problem with your DIN cable or port extender.

The S4 is an astonishingly reliable device, hence the chances of two S4s developing the exact same problem at the same time is nil.

I would look at whatever cable or device you're using to access the channels.

Detach everything from both S4s and short the c0 c3 c6 and c9 bananas on the back, one at a time, with a paper clip. If you get impulses from all the channels on both S4s, then you've got your answer.

A few weeks ago my OC-18 died, which made my S4 exhibit problems similar to what you are experiencing. A few channels died, then more died, until finally none of the channels worked. I detached the OC-18 and did some tests using the S4's onboard banana jacks and the DB25. Everything on the S4 tested OK, and sure enough, the problem was the OC-18.

I had never seen an OC-18 fail before, and neither had Fred. I've actually never seen an S4 fail either, other than EXTREME pilot error - such as users installing alkaline bateries into S4s set up for NiCads (batteries explode), or somebody plugging 120v into the horn port.

thanks for getting back to me so quickly. my problem is this, 4 of the 7 ports on the back of the s4's are funcional. ports 0 and 3 use banana plugs, and ports 3 and 4 require a converter cable and all of these work. so we now have port 6, port 7, and port 9 that do NOT work. it is the same on both of our s4's, and kind of odd. could there be a setting that is causing this, should i get the 18 channel input device in order to see if we can secure some more functional ports, or should I try to repair the hardware? any other ideas? thanks for your help.
josh

hey fred,
i did not see your post before i wrote that last one. i did take a look, and there does not appear to be any broken leads. hmmmmmmmm. . . . . .
josh

What type of device / cabling are you using to get impulses from ports 6-7-9?

Ok, here's the deal:
When we connect wands and photocells to our S4, we use both the banana plug inputs (c0,c3,c6,c9) and the DIN inputs (A,B,C, aka c1,c4,c7). When we use the DIN inputs, we use cables that have been floating around our department since any of us got here that have a DIN plug on one side and two banana plugs on the other, which we then connect to our eyes or wands. We also have a couple of longer cables with DIN connectors on both sides which we use for eyes. With every single one of these, we have no idea which pins are being used. I notice when reading other discussions on this forum that depending on which pins are active, you can get a start or a finish on the same port, but I don't understand this yet.

So. Other problems and the evident lack of knowledge on our part aside, here is the problem that we are having: With SplitSecond running and with the timing setup and test window open, we can see raw data coming in when we short all 7 ports (c0,c1/A,c3,c4/B,c6,c7/C,c9). It is all correctly labeled and formatted in the raw data window. However, when we open a race and try to time it (and yes we are mapping the inputs as we test this), this happens:

Using ports c0,c1/A,c3,and c4/B, with input mapping we can use any of these four ports to give us starts, finishes, and intervals. But, we cannot get starts, finishes, or intervals from ports c6,c7/C, or c9, no matter how they are mapped. The reason this is so confusing to us is that we can get raw data from these ports, but we cannot get SplitSecond to recognize the raw data from just those three ports and convert them to starts, finishes, and intervals.

So, I can't imagine that it's anything but an issue with SplitSecond, although we have checked the connections inside the S4 as mentioned above and set it to reset its memory on every power on just to be sure.

Thanks guys,

Donnie
(and Josh)

Good, methodical diagnosis. Well done. The S4 appears to be working correctly. Try posting in the Split Second forum, perhaps someone familiar with SS has had a similar problem.

In the meantime, I would strongly recommend the following: (1) Throw all of your DIN plugs into the nearest trash can (2) Place a call to Fred at Phoenix Sports and order a TIDO or an OC-18. For a few hundred bucks you will get yourself a simple, easy-to-diagnose, straightforward wiring solution and rid yourself of a lot of the mystery surrounding your timing setup.

Great advice, but make sure you only throw away the DIN plugs not the cables. You can recycle them by installing banana plugs on them instead of DIN'S. All you need is one pair per cable.

The wiring, as Donald wrote, has been "floating around our department since any of us got here". If you're an amateur, feel free to do what Mark suggests above. If you're a professional, do as I suggested: chuck it and replace it with wiring properly spec'd by someone like Fred or Ted Savage, who know the proper impedance and performance parameters for wiring used in this context.

The whole point of the FIS timing equipment specs is understanding that a timing system is only as good as its weakest link.

"As long as anyone here can remember" is not as long as it might sound, because Josh has been here longer than anyone, and this was only his 5th winter. Anyway, we would not be throwing out those wires but recycling them, as Marc suggested, because even though we're not sure which pins are being used with each din plug, they are by far our nicest cables. All the other wiring we use is standard CAT5 ethernet cable, due to budget restraints, and it's just horrible in the cold.

I have one other question, though: using DIN connectors, I know it is possible to power ALGE eyes over the wire instead of with batteries. Is that still possible with an OC-18 or similar device?

--dhc--

The OC-18 only allows the use of a signal pair. Signal is optoisolated using a device of this kind.

The flexible "ALGE" cable is as good as you are going to find.

I would download the ALGE cable guide to see what the pin outs are. ALGE presents their drawings from the outside where I tend to describe my drawings from the solder side.

In brief all ALGE signal DIN plugs from cell use use the same pin configuration

1 - start
2 - finish
3 - common ground
4 - 12v positive voltage going in to a timer
5 - 6v positive voltage going to a cell
6 - Aux signal for other finish uses

I have S-4 timer, when you turn on the unit the powermeter goes up and the printer starts but the LCD is dead, the rechargable batteries were out so I put in new ones, there are no connectors loose inside of the timer.

It sounds like the ribbon cable that connects the face plate to the main circuit board is loose. Remove the top cover and then make sure that the cable is pressed in securely. We use little dabs of silicone glue to hold the cable in place for S4s that travel.