mountain bike race timing??

I can give you some insight that should be helpful.....

TTware is a must for TT's and I have used it in XC races, but it can be hard to keep accurate when the pack does not spread out. For this I would only time with a photo finish system like the Lynx or Alge Optic as the backup to the TT system. Thus you have the ability to review the packed finish lines and see if you miss ID'ed any racers. As for any 4 cross, the photofinish really is the only way to go.

Equipement wise, you have a good start with a Timy and photocell. We use a good Start clock (Tag or Alge) and 2 GAZ displays at the finish. If budget is a concern, use an Alge Startbeep with a large analog clock you should be able to find at any store. Costco has a cool, large dial one for around $20 US. Remember that it won't be super accurate, but the start beep will remain accurate so sound over the clock will be your focus.

Day of registration is a pain, but TT now has an additional program that will allow registration while you are timing. Simple to setup on a network and you will only need an additional computer. This computer can become remote results and commentator later in the day.

Wires can be a pain and we have 5 Alge TED's in our equipment list. I love them and use them for all sort of things. They are pricey, but worth the effort if you find yourself timing without wires. We use them for Displays at the finish, Remote starts in TT, Intermediate times etc.

Fred can handle the dongle for TTware for you.

Now, for the volunteers.....This will be the weakest link of anything. Good solid equipment can be used poorly by untrained personal and has the ability to make a large disaster at any event. Experienced TT users can adapt rapidly to situations if they have experience and training. This may come to your volunteers but will take time. Make sure everyone practices on the gear (setup, registration, results, timing) before the event. During an event is not the time to ask questions and figuring out how to correct problems!

You may want the additional Timy at the start, especially if you don't have any hand timing (Like Hanhart TOD stopwatches). You can download the Timy and re-suck it back into TT to correct starts if necessary.

Good luck, it is not impossible, but not recommended unless you have some serious training sessions for your volunteers.

JK

I have to disagree with Jim. You don't need a Lynx camera to score XC or MTX. Getting promoters to ante up for it is the other challenge. They are really nice to have but not required. Good officials will back up your order of finish and help sort out the packs. Good organization will only send limited groups out in a wave, spreading out the field and finish rates.

We use TT ware almost exclusively for our events. A good spotter will get help alleviate your issues with pack finishes and a narrow finish chute with a strong volunteer and officials getting numbers in order of finish will give you the data to sort it all out if it gets messy.

I also agree that running your company with volunteers is dicey at best. The continutity is key and getting folks used to the process is half the battle. TTware or any timing program requires training and experience to be operated efectivly.

I'll chime in on this one, having probably timed over a hundred MTB races over the years. What you need for gear and software is obviously a function of what sort of MTB race you are timing.

For XC software we use Roger Bradshaw's "Race Director" which does an excellent job, is networkable, and makes day of race registrations manageable. A few years ago we did one event where we had over 1000 people sign up the day of the race. We had a bunch of laptops all networked together in the trailer, and could do data entry on some while we we timing and producing results on others. For XC hardware we use Flying Feet's Time Machines, which have a select time capablility that is unequalled. If you are used to doing running events, most MTB XC events have pretty easy finish line densities, and you can usually set things up so the finish line speeds are manageable. We don't use a Finish Line camera for XC and have never had a situation where we felt one was needed (I will have a regular video camera running, set up behind the finish line and looking up the chute towards the finish, just in case we need to verify a number. Rarely have I ever had to look at the tape). For staff, the registration is run by the organizers and I provide the day of race data entry personnel. We usually we put volunteers in the finish line chutes, keeping and recording the order of finish (three teams of two for bigger events). The guy on the select timer is usually one of my employees and we will put a volunteer on the finish button (photo eyes are useless in busy XC events). As the order of finish sheets come in we compare them with the sheets from the Race Officials and then hit print. Typically we will produce a fresh set of results every fifteen minutes or so throughout the day.

The gravity events are a different animal, and I view them as basically no different than many of the alpine and nordic events that we do in the winter. Usually we use an S4 as a time base and I still use some of Geoff Elder's old DOS based programs as they are fast and easy to use. Geoff's old Road program is in many ways similar to TT ware, just without all the added features of TT ware. While many downhills use assigned time starts, we have had good luck with radio modems to get the actual times if I need them and there is no hill wiring in place. If I have to string wire, I use stranded cat 5/6 wire. Being stranded, it is much easier to handle that the usual solid wire and we have it put up on 1000' spools (actually Home Depot hose reels) with junction boxes for joining lengths.

The ALGE TIMY CYCLESTART program is not useful for road time trials at this moment. It does not have a countdown and repeat program yet.

The comments made above are all very valid. As a MTB novice I will defer to them. Each group has their own techniques that work. Alot of the issues with Cross Country boil down to finish line density like running races do. The only thing that adds to the complexity is the finishing speed. Find a way to cut down on the speed with a maze after the line to be able to keep things in order for your manual scorers.

Fred The timy does have a program that does countdown and repeat. I think it is in the command program. I am guessing that program does work with a standard display? I was hoping that if we ever get the startgates for our velodromes that I might be able to borrow the cyclestart displays for use at road TTs and possibly downhills too.

Alan:

I'm interested as to how you registered 1000 people the day of your race. How many data entry stations did you have?

Registration (typing in names & teams, handing out bibs, verifying licenses, accepting payments) usually averages around 5 minutes per person. That's 5000 man/minutes. With 10 data entry stations (a HUGE setup), that's 500 minutes, or 8 1/2 hours. To start your race at noon, you'd have to open registration at 3:30 AM. Not likely to work, since 100% of the racers won't show up until just before starting time.

People usually show up about 45-60 minutes before their race. Assuming perfect conditions, with 10 data entry stations, you'd have the capacity to register around 100 racers an hour, so if your race had 6 different wave starts staggered by an hour, you could only register 100 racers per wave.

Let's assume you can register, verify, accept payment in one minute (impossible - been to a grocery store checkout lately? Then add the time to type in name, team, license, etc). With 10 data entry stations, that's still two hours to register 1000 riders.

Would love to know how you accomplished this.

No question that it would be hard to do if you look at it with the timing contractor doing all the registration work. Instead, we have nothing to do with the collection of money, handout of bibs, or verification of data. Like most large MTB races, the event went on all day. Registration opened at 7 am, with the first race start at 9. The last race went off around 3:00 pm.

The competitors would fill out the entry form, then pass by a table that verified the NORBA info, then they would be sent to a station specific for the event they were racing. There were probably 15-20 stations, split by category and then again by age group. The organizers then had a couple of people whose only job was to deliver us the completed entry forms, with bib number assigned, and we would do the actual data entry from that point.

One of the first things you learn about large races is that you don't need all the data entry finished in order to start the race, you just need it in by the time they finish. We had one person whose only job was to sort the entries so that we were only ever working on the next race to finish, not some race that might not go off for an hour or two.

Race Director, the software we use for MTB and running events, has a lookup capability, either by last name or by license number. We have a database of over 40,000 names from past MTB events, so the time spent on each participant is minimal, probably 15-20 seconds at most. If you enter the license number, you get all the relevant data. If you don't have a number, or can't read it on the form, you start entering the last name and as you add letters you progressively shrink the pick list. Probably 80% of the participants would be in the database.

For the rest, we would only enter name, age, sex and zip code. There is a zip code lookup feature in the program so you get the town & state automatically. The bib numbers were assigned based on race categories so as soon as you entered the bib number, the rest of the race data would get filled in automatically.

My recollection is that we had 4 or 5 data entry stations in the trailer early in the morning and then we shrank that down as the day wore on. It certainly was busy, but at no time were we overwhelmed. Done our way, we were probably processing 200+ per hour per data entry person at the peak, which easily dealt with the workload.

Big day of race entries are always a challenge, but with enough equipment and organization, they are manageable.

Thanks All
Some very good advice. Thanks for taking the time.