Timing and Calculations??

You know, that is a good and fair question. As a timing guy, I could whip off some snappy answers about the listed and supposed duties and responsibilities of the chief of T&C, but you and I both know at least half of them wind up being done by the RA. The timing guy is now chasing around trying to find the right numbers to put on the timing form.
In addition, as someone who is trying to teach timing, I know people are turned off and give up when confronted with the math. We lose good candidates before they even get in the timing room.
So, why don't you pose this question privately, by email, to the upper timing echelon of USSA, like Thelma and Allen and Jordan. I would like to know the reasons, also.

JG

As an adjunct to MTBChick's question, I would like to pose a more fundamental question. I have developed world championship-level software for many different professional sports, yet I have never encountered a sport other than ski racing where the burden for calculating these near-incomprehensible ranking points falls onto the events themselves, and onto officials whom are frequently volunteers.

The situation is ridiculous, and I can't think of any reason for it other than abject laziness, lack of expertise, and lack of funding on the part of FIS and USSA. For USSA to mandate its own unique points calculation (separate from FIS's) just makes a bad situation worse.

When I was - for example - Director of MIS for the Womens Tennis Tour back in the 1980s, we would NEVER have burdened our events with this type of responsibility. Furthermore, our players never would have allowed it. We frequently had situations where, for instance, Steffi Graf's year-end adidas contract bonus of $10 million was decided by less than one ranking point. None of the events would have been willing to take that responsibility, even if we had attempted to dump it on them, as FIS and USSA have done. The potential liability was just too great. For larger events, the Tour provided a staff member onsite to take care of this. For smaller (NorAm-type) events, each event was provided with a liason in our office to whom they submitted results (often simple hand-written drawsheets). The liason would make sure the results were complete, and then would personally shepherd them through the MIS department.

How did the sport of ski racing ever get themselves into this mess? Thank goodness there are a few people around who are willing to study the points calcs and the submission mechanism, and are willing to furnish their expertise to events needing help.

Ever try to get someone at the USSA office on the phone to even ask a question about this process? Good luck.

If I was an event organizer, I would get together with other event organizers and demand that the USSA take this obligation back in-house and off the shoulders of the individual events. Why are all you people paying your USSA dues and USSA sanctioning fees for this dreadful level of non-service?

Easy there oh Mightiest of Skunks.

I see your points, however, that's not my beef.

I don't have a problem as an RA calculating a penalty error, I just feel that it's misdirected to put it on the timing folk's shoulders and not more squarely on the RA or TD's.

I think the benefit of calculating the race points on site is more a service to the athlete. I know that if it is screwed up on site, the parsers at both USSA and FIS do correct it automatically.

Points lists are STILL the responsibility of the governing bodies.

Jim, I have asked this question numerous times to the upper echelon and continue to get the old "Deer in the headlights look" as though it's a logical question, but they have never considered transferring responsibilities because "THAT'S THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DONE." Which, BTW, is the exact response that I continue to get.

Hey there Chik. I just happened apon your question and I have to say, I am a little confused. It has been my experience that the 'C' part of T&C IS well infused into RA and TD teachings.

I am not sure where you are taking (or teaching?) clinics, but the responsibility of the penalty, and the calculation thereof, is and always has been with the TD. This is not something that should ever be in question. It is in fact in the rules (2.1.3.9.3). It IS squarely the responsibilty of the RA to produce and distribute both the results and penalty (also in the rules). But the TD is required 'to re-check the points and confirm their accuracy' when they are produced with the aid of a computer.

The calculations of the race points and penalty have nothing to do with 'T&C' and thus perhaps it is the title which is misleading and should be changed. But I do not think that is your issue, is it?

As I said, I have never seen evidence of the problem you describe and find that 'doing the math' is a VERY well integrated part of TD updates and RA clinics - at least at the ones I attend. However, if you feel differently, I would urge you to contact Thelma directly. She is personally responsible for AO materials and clinic and update content in the US. The materials are readily available, but perhaps there is either a distribution or execution problem in your region?

If you are in Canada however, that is a whole other ball of wax....

And by all means, do not let this stuff keep you up at night. Surely you have more important things to worry about?

That's not my gripe. I feel that the calc part should simply be left out of the T&C position. This position should be renamed and redesigned to simply be Timing.

All of my clinics for RA, Ref, TD, TC have included the caluclation of the penalty which is fine.

But when in comes down to brass tacks and manual penalty has to be calculated, the timing and calculations person is rarely found at the local/regional events that I have officiated at.

Sorry for the delay, but I was just hand calculating a penalty that I was an RA for.

Well, I for one agree with your MTB Chik, and the way to affect a change like this is to get involved and work with those that write the exam. I have started that push because you are right. It is Never the Cheif of T&C that has to do the C. The fact there is a penalty calc on the exams irked me, so I tried to replace it with TTRF Practical questions. I got the TTRF questions in, but the penalty remains. Changes like this take time, and will happen.

As far as James' comments go, I want to add one more thing. Do the events actually do it anyway? If the event organizers/officials make a mistake, FIS or USSA doesn't accept it anyway, they either identify and correct the mistake or send it back anyway...

Alas, like I said things like this take time.
J